Turnbull blasts NBN as Gillard spruiks broadband healthcare
- 16 August, 2010 13:25
- Comments 46
Former Opposition leader and Federal member for Wentworth, Malcolm Turnbull, has launched a caustic online attack on Labor’s NBN as the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, spoke at Labor’s campaign launch.
Malcolm Turnbull released a press statement blasting the NBN while the Prime Minister took the stage at her party’s campaign launch which included a comprehensive online healthcare element.
Turnbull claimed the NBN was a waste of taxpayers’ money.
“Remember, every dollar of revenue diverted to Labor’s NBN is a dollar that can’t be spent on hospitals, schools, roads or public transport – let alone return to you in lower taxes!” he said in a statement.
Turnbull said the NBN was a risky investment as the commercial value of the project may end up being a fraction of the $43 billion when it is completed.
“Risk like this are better born by the private sector – so shareholders, not Australian taxpayers lose out if the plans goes off the rails,” he said in the statement.
While the Coalition has only pledged $6 billion in its own version of a NBN, Turnbull said it is not an inferior plan.
“On the contrary, most [users] will have access to privately-provided broadband services virtually indistinguishable from Labor’s – but at much lower cost.”
At the Labor campaign launch, Prime Minister Julia Gillard focused the bulk of its NBN content on how it will benefit healthcare of rural Australia. She pledged $392.3 million for a range of e-health services.
This would include $250.5m to go towards Medicare rebates for rural Australians accessing medical services online as well as $56.8m for GPs and specialists that participate in delivering online serivces.
From July, 2011, Australians, especially those living in rural and regional Australia, will be entitled to apply for a special Medicare rebate for consultations on the Net using broadband. This benefits people living in areas where there are few specialists.
“They can see the health practitioner that they need from the offices of their local general practitioner rather than moving towns, moving cities, moving states which is what has to happen now,” the Prime Minister said.
She also announced the Government will bring in a general practitioners after-hours hotline which involves video streaming via broadband at the cost of $50m. If elected, Labor will initiate the plan on the July 1, 2012.
The Coalition’s broadband plans have been criticised by members of the telco industry as short-sighted.
ISPs were concerned by the proposal’s focus on wireless technology – which is considered to be more limiting than fixed-line service – and its failure to adequately address the industry dominance of Telstra.
Nominations for the 2012 ARN IT Industry Awards open on Tuesday, June 12.
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Comments
Richard Ure
When the shouting is all over and Malcolm is looking for life after politics, will he be left standing naked in the town square having rung his bell to announce his preference for a low tech, short life span solution?
Mr Realist
No,
He will have a guaranteed minimum of 12mb connection, whoever wins the election.
Ample for him in retirement,
as it is ample for all australians who use their home internet for recreation and business.
And he gets this as well as $37 billion to invest in assets which actually make the country money!!
Terry Godfrey
And will he want to "invest" that $37 billion in upgrading the decaying, archaic, obsolete copper that even Telstra has no interest in replacing? And if he did, should we thank him for that, and praise him for his good housekeeping? For saving money, perhaps?
Rick
That's all well and good when Turnbull already has fibre to his $10 million house at point piper.
But there's a reason why he got out of ozemail. It started going bust because it wasn't embracing ADSL like all the other companys out there. By the time ozemail released ADSL plans, most of their customers had already moved on to faster pastures. Not very good business sense from a man and a company that was one of the internet pioneers in australia.
Duideka
12mb is not all that is needed, I cannot believe people are looking at this from a one person perspective.
We share our extremely fast by ADSL2 standards, 18Mbps connection with 3 people.
Very rarely are people torrenting or using other high bandwidth intensive programs. All it takes is two people wanting to look at a Youtube video at once and our super fast connection, 150% faster than what Liberal think is all people need, comes down like a house of cards.
Youtube is great for studying, before someone comes and claims Youtube is entirely unproductive, many things can be learnt from it - just search 'How to *' and replace * with something you want to learn, and instantly you have mountains of knowledge at your fingertips - Youtube is essentially a video version of Wikipedia if you want it to be.
There is zero reason to replace the copper network, eventually we will get someone with brains (IE: NBNco) who will wish to dismantle the copper network and put it where it belongs, the scrap yard. Why spend $6bn on polishing outdated technology?
For the price Liberal want to use, to polish our already crippled copper network - we could have built 25% of the NBN already. Which is up to 100x faster and the technology of the future.
To the comment of him getting $37bn to invest into assets that actually make the country money? Absolute rubbish. The NBN is one of the only investments the government has proposed in a long time that will actually create another income source, and not just blow it all away.
We spent $1.1 trillion on welfare, why don't we axe welfare and invest that in things that will make the government money? Oh but that's fine, because it effects everyday joe's more than the NBN.
Daniel
Turnbell is an idiot after rejoining Coalition.
Bob the Builder
Is it safe to say that the Liberals really like the private sector and don't give a rats arse about the future and only focusing on the debt that was unavoidable if Australia were to dismiss the recession?
carl
So the answer is to pay 5k per household PLUS high access costs to implememt NBN2? Show me figures where the non tech voters have a clue what 12mb it is let alone the 1gb Gillard is spruiking about.
ADSl2 is ample for everyone for years to come.The goverment need to show real figures on who actually wants it not some pie in the sky rural healthcare video links sometime in the future.
Build decent hospitals and train decent staff before forcing NBN down our throats.
shramiac
What I want to know is, say you buy a house in a new estate that has had fibre to the home put in, when you sign up to a plan, will you be forced to purchase an NBN plan even if you do not want the speed? If you ask, "Hey I only want a $50/month plan like my mate has 2 suburbs over on adsl2+?" Will you be told, "Sorry, you've got fibre into your house you much purchase an NBN plan! Here are our outlandish prices for little download limits! Mmmmhahahaha!"
Bob the Builder
If you've seen the NBN plans you would know that they're of equal or better value than the current ADSL2+ plans. The rollout of more ADSL2+ under the private sector or Telstra using copper would be useless with already plenty of the current population unable to access ADSL2+ because of the limits of copper and Telstra being stiff arses. Yes lets scrap the NBN and have Telstra control all things Internet related in Australia so they can screw all their customers over like Ass Sol.
sam
adsl2 would be a great improvment for most australians but what happens when u get stuck on a RIM again and speeds throttled down at home my wife runs a business and if want to download a movie from itunes or xbox live i have to do it while she sleep i am all for getting to watch a movie while she works and not to mention that i could make calls at the same time on voip?
i want NBN so i can get a internet and ide love 50mbps that alot better 1x1.5mbps on my current line
Adam
@shramiac
Having just built a new house in a new estate, you don't get ADSL2+, they get littered with RIMS. and my connection can barely stay stable at 1.5 meg and i'm paying exuberant prices for this. I know what Id rather be paying for.
Adam
#Rick - Turnball sold Ozemail to UUnet/MCI before ADSL was even available in Australia, it then went bust in the Dot-com bust.
He then put his money into Webcentral and made a fortune when it was bought Melbourne IT.
sam
@ adam
i would have to agree a few friends i know have just built and cant get 512kbps stable conection so 1.5mps sound good to them
Duideka
I'm sure the non-tech users would agree 12Mbps isnt enough if you explained it to them in a term they could understand.
EG: If you are trying to facebook while others in your house are trying to youtube and it is taking forever to load, that is why a 12mbps connection sucks.
carl
Mr Realist
[Quote] Mon 16/08/2010 - 14:41
No,
He will have a guaranteed minimum of 12mb connection, whoever wins the election.
[/quote]
In IT and technology 12mb connection does not mean 12 mb
It is always peak.
No less then those ADSL2 ads advertise 24Mb
hardly any consumer can get even close to 5Mbs on ADSL2+
Liberals are brainless if they believe throwing money at ADSL2+ will extend it to 12Mbs in Suburban Areas (not even considering Regional Areas)
It would cost enormous amounts to rerun new copper cable to improve ADSL services in RIM services areas.
a peak can only be achieved in rare events and out of hours time.
Also the Liberal plan does not stipulate 12mb in each direction
12Mb ADSL2+ has upstream about 1Mbs
Mike ELLIOTT
It is time the government told the public what it will charge for the NBN. Tassie is getting it free from NBN to encourage punters to sign up for the service. We will have to pay the interest on the $43Billon with high fees OR high taxes.
Nothing is FREE in this life.
Jimmah
“Risk like this are better born by the private sector – so shareholders, not Australian taxpayers lose out if the plans goes off the rails,” he said in the statement.
Oh so you mean like Telstra? Like all those people whose super is invested in the private sector?
Australian taxpayers ARE the private sector shareholders you buffoon.
shramiac
@Adam
I was referring to a new estate that has ONLY fibre going to the homes as will be the case in Labor win and the NBN gets past. I realise the current RIM problems suck. So far 70 houses in Tassie have got NBN at a cost of $37,000,000! Nearly $500,000 each! AND that's in our smallest state! Does anyone really think that the NBN will come in at budget estimate??? It would be nice no doubt. We just can't afford it now.
Jimmah
@shramiac
The infrastructure exists whether people are connected or not. Therefore to use ridiculous scare tactics like 500k per house is disingenious to say the least.
Patch
At what rate do Youtube servers pump out their information?
Do they allow downloads at 100 Mps? What is the Max Speed Australia can download from USA?
If it is under 12 Mps what is the point of arguing youtube videos are slow? You could have 1 Gb ps and it would not make an ounce of difference.
Isnt 70% of our traffic overseas??
Pharaoh
If the Liberals' plan goes through, we'll just end up having to roll out fibre at a later date once everyone realises that being on 12Mbps isn't enough if the US and Europe (who produce websites under the assumption that everyone has access to the same bandwidth they do) are on fibre. The labour costs to lay all that cable aren't going to get any cheaper, and the cost per year of the NBN is absolutely nothing compared to what we spend on health, education or the military so stop telling us they deserve it more.
shramiac
@Jimmah
Not if no-one takes it up!
Brad
I would love to hear how Turnbull reconciles that viewpoint with the Liberals parental leave scheme. NBN is 43 billion over 10 years. Parental leave scheme is 8 billion over 2, so presumably 4 billion a year after that.
Yet the PL scheme will not produce one cent of revenue, nor build any infrastructure... Where is the business case for this scheme??
sam
@patch
there is a new pipeline from USA to NZ and AUS called pacific that is fiber thats being layed and more to come...
if we dont have fiber there is no point having the fiber in pipes layed so we can acess the internet now is there?
if u want more info on whats coming in Google it....
anyy1
You should all be really happy what you pay for mbps mega bits e.g. 1$ per megabit i pay for 1 megabite. bite being the lesser of the two.
Mark Smith
Investing billions of dollars in a technology system simply because it is the fastest available at the time without investing in the capacity of future generations to utilize the technology effectively is really a wasted effort.
Unless the education institutions are able to invest firstly in having sufficient qualified dedicated teachers to guide students in achieving their potential what is the use of having the fastest broadband and a computer in every student’s hand?
The following study would indicate access to technology in itself does not improve education outcomes. Doubts about school computer use:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4032737.stm
So Labors insistence investing vast sums of money in enabling access to computers will improve education outcomes and productivity is really a fallacy. Clearly the above study would indicate the provision of computers can in fact be a hindrance to optimal education outcomes.
Again Australians have billions of dollars wasted by politicians on an uncoordinated scheme which is meant to look good and delivers in reality much less than promised.
The question I raise is how and by how much will productivity and educational advancement be raised relative to the massive investment Labor is making in the computers for school and broadband and how this may be offset by not focusing on the real issues of what actually improves education and productivity outcomes as opposed to a gimmick.
If anyone can answer this question good as the Labor Party of Australia certainly has not.
Oh for a sound Australian governance system!
Gav
@Patch Youtube is mirrored locally. Google have datacenters in Australia.
But on that note. I did the math - under NBNco's current plan Australians would have 102Mbps each on average internationally available and 731Mbps on average available to them locally.
@Shrmainc or /e: NBNco will be forced on people wether they like it or not, whilst forced sounds bad, why should people be 'forced' to take up a service that is of better value to them? Maybe it's the wake up call they need... Many of my old folk are still with Telstra because they don't quite know there are alternatives that are cheaper, unless they were forced to change they may continue getting ripped off.
The NBN is going to be cheaper for consumers, take a look at the NBN plans already released - many providers will offer phone for $0-$10 over it also, currently most pay $30 for a phone they barely use.
[[Investing billions of dollars in a technology system simply because it is the fastest available at the time without investing in the capacity of future generations to utilize the technology effectively is really a wasted effort.]]
NBN won't be built in a year, by the time it's built people will be dying to get off copper, not that many are not at present, I am one of them - If I could get Fiber today I would find much joy in covering my DSL modem on petrol and setting it alight.
[[Unless the education institutions are able to invest firstly in having sufficient qualified dedicated teachers to guide students in achieving their potential what is the use of having the fastest broadband and a computer in every student’s hand?]]
I disagree with that entirely. I had a hard time at school and was extremely upset I never appeared to be learning anything in regards to technology, so I took up a online course and learnt more than I ever did in mainstream school. Faster internet will increase learning productivity.
[[Again Australians have billions of dollars wasted by politicians on an uncoordinated scheme which is meant to look good and delivers in reality much less than promised.]]
$2.6bn/year is a needle in a haystack compared to the other spending, whilst you may not personally think building the NBN is worth $26bn over 10 years, you would agree it is a project that is worth building, if it cost, say, $1bn over 10 years?
Ask yourself this: Would you rather the NBN be built, or some extra houses for boat people to live in? Instead of dismissing the NBN as a waste of cash, look at the alternatives of what cash may be invested into.
SNIPER
the NBN is a 50year network NOT a 5 year POS network like the lib's plan.
Now much did Telecom return to the government coffers over the years, before it was sold off.
The NBN FTTP is the ONLY Network to drive the Australian telecomunications infrastructure into the next century at the very LEAST.
The Liberal party is currently full stupid people who are all negative and have NO policy towards the future. Their idea of a Telecommunications network belongs in the last century.
Wireless has a MAJOR flaw in that it is shared between users plus ALL other radio usage. Weather affects it quite badly quite a lot of the time as well.
me
there is no explaining it to them, liberal die hards will paint a negitive over anything labor come up with cause that is their solution to everything.
Infrastructure always cost money to implement, that's why its called infrastructure, It is a main component in a large system.
"there's no business case" "there are no services to make use of it" etc etc
Its chicken and egg. The nbn is built, then the applications that go with it come along and everyone's life becomes better. the billions going in to this network will save billions in new roads and transport infrastructure as more and more people can venture out side of the CBD and still work.
12mbit is not a solution. The upload speed does not allow for the types of data a work from home/regional city person really needs. And its a maximum troughput not average or minimum.
I've had a 10mbit connection from optus via cable for 11 years, I would have thought we'd progress a little between then and now, Its taken a decade, but its starting to happen.
If it wasn't for NBN, tasmania would still be paying more to send data to melbourne than you do to send data to the UK hence the lack of competition there... That is what private sector gets you. Takes a government body to supply to areas of little/no profit, business couldn't give 2 s...
100mbit or even 1gbit will allow for working from home as if you are sitting in the office accessing the files there and then. your office cubicle will be at home in a home office with a vpn connection to work while the phone can be an extention of the work one. AND when 5pm comes, you can disconnect, turn it off and hang out with the kids.
cos
“Remember, every dollar of revenue diverted to Labor’s NBN is a dollar that can’t be spent on hospitals, schools, roads or public transport – let alone return to you in lower taxes!”
------
i didnt know it was liberal policy to invest that saved 43b. in hospitals, schools and public transport (what Tony Abbott said tonight just shows how much he loves piublic transport).
or was it their policy to reduce taxes?
it is refreshing that the liberal party are advising the government to invest in social/economic infrastructure that we value - even if they havent the slightest intention of doing so themselves.
so the real choice is probably between the NBN as an investment in social and economic infrastructure vital to our thriving in a 21st century digitalised and globalised economy on the one hand, and probably the extension of middle class welfare up the income scale on the other.
i know which choice im backing.
Dave
Congrats Turdball - yet another Liberal showing his hand that he knows absolutely NOTHING of the technology being implemented. ADSL2 would be adequate if it wasn't for the crap state of the copper that goes into every single house and business in this country. The Libs proudly point to their mission statement that 'Private Business' should fund this or do that if their is a 'need'. I give you the state of our broadband and telecommunications as a prime example of what happens when profit comes before services. We have brand new housing estates locked behind RIMS because it was far cheaper than doing the job properly. We have ADSL2 services that can only get a couple of MBps because of the abysmal state of the old copper. We have places that can't get adequate services because its not 'economically viable' for anyone to hook them up. Take a look at Telstra's business page for what Telstra are extorting for simple connections to businesses. Over $4000 a MONTH for a simple 4mb up/down connection...and then you pay for ALL data up and down that link. I can only imagine the horror that is the prices for 10Mb and greater connections at the moment.
A new Fibre NBN is going to tear up all of that broken down obsolete copper and replace it with fibre running to each and every house and business in metro areas. Say goodbye to your RIMs keeping you in 1998, say goodbye to relying on congested HFC cable, say goodbye to crappy wireless signals that drop out every 5 minutes.
Look at it this way - eventually we will have to go fibre, no ifs and or buts about it. Whether its now or in 10 - 15 years time. If its going to cost $30 odd billion now to do it - what is it going to cost in 10 - 15 years time?? If you think its going to be less than DOUBLE what its going to cost now I have a bridge you may be interested in buying....
mutatedwombat
Ok, here's an analogy. Build a six lane, straight highway joining Sydney and Melbourne, or build a winding, two lane highway that does the same job at considerable saving. Except that the saving is illusory, because in the future the winding, two lane highway will have to be replaced by a straight, six lane highway. In the meantime, business has been hampered by inadequate transport facilities.
Now here's an example. The NBN will provide me with enough upload speed to allow me to set up a home web server. That means I can set up my own web business from home, with minimal outlay. I could make and sell software, for example, and the bandwidth available means that multiple customers could purchase and download from my web site simultaneously.
Try doing that with a wireless connection.
Average Joe
A fairly biased and misleading article - A nice headline - resulting in a dressing down of the Lib's. There are also members of the telco industry that have arguments against the $43Bn vote inducing splurge that Labor is spruking.
When the dust settles (if) when the NBN is built - not only the cost (x*$43Bn) PLUS a 93% chance that the filter we be introduced (Greens - what greens!) - The disparity between the rural and metro areas will be insurmountable; Our heritage is in the bush - Primary industry - Farming & Mining etc - Doesn't make sense to slit the throat of the cash cow - Just because the haves want more faster internet!
Glen B
Malcom Turnbull arguing for no NBN is like Penny Wong arguing for no gay marriage. You know they don't really beleive what they are saying.
Emmisfor
Turnbull is only interested in telecoms networks where he is making money from them, he never built or managed one himself. And he made significant money out of financing them previously.
His comments are hypocritical, as he previously spruiked such investments to the Australian financial community, as long as HE was making $$$$ from their investments.
The rest of the developed planet is going fibre FTTP/FTTH, but the good old Libs, who previously drained the funding in $billions out of public services, hospitals, roads and education, all of a sudden *cares* about these services and ignores global developments?
Naive hypocrites...
Well I guess this is the party that claims the GFC was not affecting us and that just turning around boats would stop them coming... So I guess another 20 years of Telstra monopoly and ageing, long end of life copper would suit them fine.
But the analogy is perfect:
Ageing, tottering on death, inefficient, outdated, superceded, low performance, crumbling and dependant on a monopoly just to exist...
So, are we talking about Telstra's copper or The LibNat Party?
Both I guess...
Ocker
Sadly, the once proud Turnbull has now resorted to blatant lying.
Graeme M
Few home users need the high speed and few will make use of it for many years. If each users had to pay the full cost of connecting (etsimated $5,000 per connection all up) practically noone would take it up. The con trick is that people think they will get it for similar prices as paid for current broadband - but it is not free, it will have to be paid for by everybodys taxes - several thousand dollars per household.
For regional areas, they may be in for a surprise. Already in Tasmania, (the most decentralised state) some small towns are not being connected to the NBN even though the main fibre link passes within a few hundred metres of the town.(eg Tunbridge, Oatlands). Other towns 20 kms from the main pipe will not be connected (eg Bothwell). They are being told they will have to rely on wireless. If this is the case in Tas, what's it going to be like for small communities on the mainland where distances are much greater? It's a con!
In addition, the final speed is dependant on the smallest pipe. There are many bottlenecks in delivery which will mean that the so called 100Mb speeds will not be realised much of the time.
I work from home on the computer 90% of the time, using ADSL2. It is fine. Those who have no broadband at all (lots of areas) would I expect be very happy with 12mb.
Rolf
To my way of thinking, the NBN is the same sort of investment that the Snowy Rivers Scheme was all those years ago. Everyone then also had grief with the Goverment of the day spending all of that money on the scheme instead of other important infrastructure so this debate, as far as I am concerned, is basically the same. I just hope the outcome and the benefits are the same this time because the scheme produced benefits immediately on switch-on, whereas the NBN would not necessarily benefit mum and dad immediately - but the money (from borrowings) is spent giving a long ROI.
Richard
The Australian People are Shareholders of the Australian Economy.
We need to see a strategic investment in our infrustructure and the NBN looks like that to me.
BigJase
@ Average Joe. I have worked in regional Australia with regional business for 20 years as an IT professional. I can tell you from experience the biggest roadblock and cost to these business is access to high speed data. It holds them back from growing their businesses and being competitive. This is situation we have under the “Private Sector”.
This is not about faster speeds for You Tube or Facebook. This is about equity for all. An opportunity for any entrepreneur to be able to provide a business or a server no matter where they are located. Think of all the services business deliver now that are based in CBD’s simply because the infrastructure is there. Do you not think they will be enticed into regional areas that are hungry for employment when they realise they can deliver their services with lower wages costs and lease costs. You betcha they will.
And for all those spruiking there are no services that require 100MBits to the home. When TV first landed in Australia the first users where not entirely spoilt for choice. The programs had not been developed because the service did not exist. Why would anyone produce a service that requires 100Mbit connection to use when it clearly does not exist. However you can guarantee that people will be climbing on board once they realise what can be delivered in the future.
It will be a utility like your water, electricity and sewerage.
Paul
NBN not just about Internet browsing its PayTv from a provider of your choice not just foxtel, Downloading Movies on demand (Which you should pay for ) Video Phone calls. Allowing people to work from home with high speed VPN acces to there offices.
And yes i work from home now but it can get frustrating iam on ADSL2 but only get 9Mbs on a dry day 6 when its rains and the Pits fill with water.
sam
As for the car analogy if you take your car to professionals and they say its to old and to fix it for a few yrs it will cost u 5k but we can sell you a new and realible car for say 35k but it will last you for 50+ yrs would u borrow 5k for 5yrs of 35k for 50+? its seems smarter to me to pay more for a better option....
tony and malcolm listen to the professionals FFS and stop acting like you belive that fixing a POS network with a quick fix is worth it!
P.S. the new estimate for the NBN is 26B (tho i think they are sticking to 48B to be safe) that 4.3x the cost for 10x the stability...
Another Realist
Lots of people are assuming we need Fibre to the home and that we'll be left behind without it.
Then why isn't Korea leagues in front of us?
They have fibre.
Yet I don't hear how much further ahead they are...
Trent
I couldn't agree more. The NBN is bad news for Australia. It'll cost us billions, make access to the internet ALOT more expensive, reduce competition and be a huge, unprofitable white elephant.
DanL
11-09-2011 11:36 AM #10 Kabal
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All my friends seem to be playing either this or Dead Island. And if they've already beaten the former, they're playing the later. I thought this was one of those games that you simply couldn't beat once....
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